CTI TAXII Subcommittee

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  • 1.  Re: [EXT] [cti-taxii] Alternate Query Proposal Walk Through February 19th

    Posted 02-08-2019 19:21




    Jason,
     
    I agree â you should have an opportunity to present your proposal and answer questions. Letâs add it to the agenda for the next working call.
     
    Thanks,
    Rich
     

    From: <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>
    Date: Friday, February 8, 2019 at 8:31 AM
    To: "cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org>
    Subject: [EXT] [cti-taxii] Alternate Query Proposal Walk Through February 19th


     

    I would like to be given the opportunity to walk the TAXII SC through the alternative Query proposal that Terry MacDonald and I created over 12 months ago

    This proposal is located here -
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cy_9Bh5tKEkDHGg2iv5c3AwriqVr7ygbKXWOv4-uHxs/edit#heading=h.1jcqb6vc5y7z

    We have floated this proposal several times to the SC - yet, there has never really been any debate,  discussion, or any significant comments on the document or with either of us, while others have
    created these alternative proposals. My understanding is this proposal may have been presented very briefly at the F2F, however no one involved in the creation of it was present to defend it.


    Most of the arguments I hear people give against the proposal, I believe are based on false understanding of how it works. Which is why we would like to be given the opportunity to defend it.

    I would like to plan to present this to the TC on the working call on February 19th.

    The benefits of this proposal over the current relationship one:

    - Ease of implementation.
     There is a lot of misinformation about how hard this would be to implement. Because query types are optional for implementations, it is actually extremely simple to implement, much simpler than the current proposal is. It is also simple to add query types
    to your software in the future.

    - Interoperability and Optionality.
    No implementor is required to implement any specific type of query , however code implementations can 100% interoperate, due to trivial discoverability of the types of supported types of queries

    - Combinations . You can combine supported query types to get what you want . I can ask for indicators that match an observable *and* combine this with a request for relationships

    - Modularity. We can add other types of queries , without creating "endpoint hell". Vendors can even make their own query types using STIX SEP process, and have them interact with other query
    types in a 100% interoperable fashion.

    - Sets you up for asynchronous queries . STIX queries against data lakes of hundreds of TB can take some time to fulfil. To expect one to be able to always fulfill a TAXII query in a synchronous
    REST endpoint in all scenarios, is not realistic. In this implementation, because the query resource is POSTed to the endpoint, it allows results to be fulfilled asynchronously via an alternate channel (ie, TAXII channels). Once TAXII channels exist, this
    will be extremely useful. However, even right now, software could still use existing technologies like OpenDXL to make this feature useful.



    -
    Jason Keirstead
    Lead Architect - IBM Security Connect
    www.ibm.com/security

    "Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle." - Unknown










  • 2.  Re: [cti-taxii] Re: [EXT] [cti-taxii] Alternate Query Proposal Walk Through February 19th

    Posted 02-08-2019 20:56
    Rich can we present it on February
    19th - I would like some time
    to prepare a presentation. - Jason Keirstead Lead Architect - IBM Security Connect www.ibm.com/security "Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those
    who hustle." - Unknown From:      
      "Struse, Richard
    J." <rjs@mitre.org> To:      
      Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>,
    "cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org> Date:      
      02/08/2019 03:21 PM Subject:    
        [cti-taxii]
    Re: [EXT] [cti-taxii] Alternate Query Proposal Walk Through February 19th Sent by:    
        <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org> Jason,   I agree â you should have an opportunity
    to present your proposal and answer questions. Letâs add it to the agenda
    for the next working call.   Thanks, Rich   From: <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org>
    on behalf of Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com> Date: Friday, February 8, 2019 at 8:31 AM To: "cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org> Subject: [EXT] [cti-taxii] Alternate Query Proposal Walk Through February
    19th   I would like to be given the opportunity
    to walk the TAXII SC through the alternative Query proposal that Terry
    MacDonald and I created over 12 months ago This proposal is located here - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cy_9Bh5tKEkDHGg2iv5c3AwriqVr7ygbKXWOv4-uHxs/edit#heading=h.1jcqb6vc5y7z We have floated this proposal several times to the SC - yet, there has
    never really been any debate,  discussion, or any significant comments
    on the document or with either of us, while others have created these alternative
    proposals. My understanding is this proposal may have been presented very
    briefly at the F2F, however no one involved in the creation of it was present
    to defend it. Most of the arguments I hear people give against the proposal, I believe
    are based on false understanding of how it works. Which is why we would
    like to be given the opportunity to defend it. I would like to plan to present this to the TC on the working call on February
    19th. The benefits of this proposal over the current relationship one: - Ease of implementation.  There is a lot of misinformation
    about how hard this would be to implement. Because query types are optional
    for implementations, it is actually extremely simple to implement, much
    simpler than the current proposal is. It is also simple to add query types
    to your software in the future. - Interoperability and Optionality. No implementor is required to implement
    any specific type of query , however code implementations can 100% interoperate,
    due to trivial discoverability of the types of supported types of queries - Combinations . You can combine supported query types to get what you
    want . I can ask for indicators that match an observable *and* combine
    this with a request for relationships - Modularity. We can add other types of queries , without creating
    "endpoint hell". Vendors can even make their own query types
    using STIX SEP process, and have them interact with other query types in
    a 100% interoperable fashion. - Sets you up for asynchronous queries . STIX queries against data
    lakes of hundreds of TB can take some time to fulfil. To expect one to
    be able to always fulfill a TAXII query in a synchronous REST endpoint
    in all scenarios, is not realistic. In this implementation, because the
    query resource is POSTed to the endpoint, it allows results to be fulfilled
    asynchronously via an alternate channel (ie, TAXII channels). Once TAXII
    channels exist, this will be extremely useful. However, even right now,
    software could still use existing technologies like OpenDXL to make this
    feature useful. - Jason Keirstead Lead Architect - IBM Security Connect www.ibm.com/security "Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those
    who hustle." - Unknown



  • 3.  Re: [cti-taxii] Re: [EXT] [cti-taxii] Alternate Query Proposal Walk Through February 19th

    Posted 02-08-2019 23:19




    Yes.
     

    From: Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>
    Date: Friday, February 8, 2019 at 3:57 PM
    To: Richard Struse <rjs@mitre.org>
    Cc: "cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org>
    Subject: Re: [cti-taxii] Re: [EXT] [cti-taxii] Alternate Query Proposal Walk Through February 19th


     

    Rich can we present it on
    February 19th - I would like some time to prepare a presentation.

    -
    Jason Keirstead
    Lead Architect - IBM Security Connect
    www.ibm.com/security

    "Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle." - Unknown





    From:         "Struse, Richard J." <rjs@mitre.org>
    To:         Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>, "cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org>
    Date:         02/08/2019 03:21 PM
    Subject:         [cti-taxii] Re: [EXT] [cti-taxii] Alternate Query Proposal Walk Through February 19th
    Sent by:         <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org>






    Jason,
     
    I agree â you should have an opportunity to present your proposal and answer questions. Letâs add it to the agenda for the next working call.
     
    Thanks,
    Rich
     
    From: <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>
    Date: Friday, February 8, 2019 at 8:31 AM
    To: "cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-taxii@lists.oasis-open.org>
    Subject: [EXT] [cti-taxii] Alternate Query Proposal Walk Through February 19th
     
    I would like to be given the opportunity to walk the TAXII SC through the alternative Query proposal that Terry MacDonald and I created over 12 months ago

    This proposal is located here - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cy_9Bh5tKEkDHGg2iv5c3AwriqVr7ygbKXWOv4-uHxs/edit#heading=h.1jcqb6vc5y7z

    We have floated this proposal several times to the SC - yet, there has never really been any debate,  discussion, or any significant comments on the document or with either of us, while others have created these alternative proposals. My understanding is this
    proposal may have been presented very briefly at the F2F, however no one involved in the creation of it was present to defend it.


    Most of the arguments I hear people give against the proposal, I believe are based on false understanding of how it works. Which is why we would like to be given the opportunity to defend it.

    I would like to plan to present this to the TC on the working call on February 19th.

    The benefits of this proposal over the current relationship one:

    - Ease of implementation.  There is a lot of misinformation about how hard this would be to implement. Because query types are optional for implementations, it is actually extremely simple to implement, much simpler than the current proposal is. It is
    also simple to add query types to your software in the future.

    - Interoperability and Optionality. No implementor is required to implement any specific type of query , however code implementations can 100% interoperate, due to trivial discoverability of the types of supported types of queries

    - Combinations . You can combine supported query types to get what you want . I can ask for indicators that match an observable *and* combine this with a request for relationships

    - Modularity. We can add other types of queries , without creating "endpoint hell". Vendors can even make their own query types using STIX SEP process, and have them interact with other query types in a 100% interoperable fashion.

    - Sets you up for asynchronous queries . STIX queries against data lakes of hundreds of TB can take some time to fulfil. To expect one to be able to always fulfill a TAXII query in a synchronous REST endpoint in all scenarios, is not realistic. In this
    implementation, because the query resource is POSTed to the endpoint, it allows results to be fulfilled asynchronously via an alternate channel (ie, TAXII channels). Once TAXII channels exist, this will be extremely useful. However, even right now, software
    could still use existing technologies like OpenDXL to make this feature useful.



    -
    Jason Keirstead
    Lead Architect - IBM Security Connect
    www.ibm.com/security

    "Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle." - Unknown