Data Provenance (DPS) TC

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  • 1.  Is abbreviation a gating item?

    Posted 05-03-2025 12:47

    In a separate thread I stated that agreeing on the abbreviation is a gating item.

    In that thread Stefan disagreed and said:

    My experience since 2005 in OASIS and as editor is, that these abbreviations can wait until CSD01 and are best identified, when the content of these artifacts (where we need abbreviations as part of their file names for) is stabilized.

    It is actually not as simple as either of us state. I admittedly have only been in OASIS since 2013 (or maybe it was 2012) but I have been doing international standards since 1983. So I do tend to get picky since unfortunately I have plenty of experiences where "not being picky" caused issues - usually long delays which are very frustrating to me.

    My 'gating item' is because it is a gating item on requesting the template from OASIS. Stefan is correct that we can work without doing this. Getting picky, technically we haven't 'started' until we request the template. The form is what kicks off the internal OASIS processes on tracking work products which I think is more important then actually having the text of the template (which we have gotten on our own anyway). In the past, OASIS TC's tended to work to get the meat of the text correct and then do all the boilerplate at the end. This puts a huge burden on OASIS staff (of which there are very few) and tends to cause a lot of rework by the TC. The OASIS Board is trying hard to get TC's to 'start' with the correct boilerplate to reduce the rework and last second 'adds' (like conformance section that most TC's ignore until they realize they need that section). Note this push by the Board is recent. But more importantly, filling out the template gets our work product into the work product tracking system as officially started.

    Personally I would like to 'quickly' (and we might all disagree on the actual amount of time this is) get to a CSD01 that shows the text we agree to, and where we still need to reach agreement. IMHO it's all just talk until you've had an actual ballot on a CSD01. Note usually most people don't even read anything until it's being balloted. IMHO starting TC's wait way too long to get to CSD01. And the very first step in that process is filling out the form with something in each field. Hence my push on abbreviation. and since it does affect a lot of stuff (Stefan's logic for waiting) I'd prefer to get it right. But I'd prefer to be wrong quickly over delaying further. Yes it's work to change later but it's riskier to delay IMHO.



    ------------------------------
    Duncan Sparrell
    Chief Cyber Curmudgeion
    sFractal Consulting LLC
    Oakton VA
    703-828-8646
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Is abbreviation a gating item?

    Posted 05-05-2025 09:41
    Since the OASIS staff perspective has been brought up, I wanted to chime in as the OASIS staff member responsible for publishing your specification. From my standpoint, it makes no difference whether you decide on your abbreviation now or later in the process. You have the template so you know what content you need. The decision is yours on what order to tackle each section as long as they are resolved by the time you go to approve the Committee Specification Draft.

    Best regards,
    Kelly

    On Sat, May 3, 2025 at 12:46 PM Duncan Sparrell via OASIS <Mail@mail.groups.oasis-open.org> wrote:
    In a separate thread I stated that agreeing on the abbreviation is a gating item. In that thread Stefan disagreed and said: My experience since... -posted to the "OASIS Data Provenance Standard Technical Committee" community

    Data Provenance (DPS) TC

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    Is abbreviation a gating item?
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    May 3, 2025 12:47 PM
    Duncan Sparrell

    In a separate thread I stated that agreeing on the abbreviation is a gating item.

    In that thread Stefan disagreed and said:

    My experience since 2005 in OASIS and as editor is, that these abbreviations can wait until CSD01 and are best identified, when the content of these artifacts (where we need abbreviations as part of their file names for) is stabilized.

    It is actually not as simple as either of us state. I admittedly have only been in OASIS since 2013 (or maybe it was 2012) but I have been doing international standards since 1983. So I do tend to get picky since unfortunately I have plenty of experiences where "not being picky" caused issues - usually long delays which are very frustrating to me.

    My 'gating item' is because it is a gating item on requesting the template from OASIS. Stefan is correct that we can work without doing this. Getting picky, technically we haven't 'started' until we request the template. The form is what kicks off the internal OASIS processes on tracking work products which I think is more important then actually having the text of the template (which we have gotten on our own anyway). In the past, OASIS TC's tended to work to get the meat of the text correct and then do all the boilerplate at the end. This puts a huge burden on OASIS staff (of which there are very few) and tends to cause a lot of rework by the TC. The OASIS Board is trying hard to get TC's to 'start' with the correct boilerplate to reduce the rework and last second 'adds' (like conformance section that most TC's ignore until they realize they need that section). Note this push by the Board is recent. But more importantly, filling out the template gets our work product into the work product tracking system as officially started.

    Personally I would like to 'quickly' (and we might all disagree on the actual amount of time this is) get to a CSD01 that shows the text we agree to, and where we still need to reach agreement. IMHO it's all just talk until you've had an actual ballot on a CSD01. Note usually most people don't even read anything until it's being balloted. IMHO starting TC's wait way too long to get to CSD01. And the very first step in that process is filling out the form with something in each field. Hence my push on abbreviation. and since it does affect a lot of stuff (Stefan's logic for waiting) I'd prefer to get it right. But I'd prefer to be wrong quickly over delaying further. Yes it's work to change later but it's riskier to delay IMHO.



    ------------------------------
    Duncan Sparrell
    Chief Cyber Curmudgeion
    sFractal Consulting LLC
    Oakton VA
    703-828-8646
    ------------------------------
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  • 3.  RE: Is abbreviation a gating item?

    Posted 05-05-2025 09:56

    Kelly,

    Are we allowed to have TBD items in a CSD? I thought yes. "tackle each section as long as they are resolved by the time you go to approve the Committee Specification Draft" implies we need to complete each section before we can have a CSD. It was my understanding that they had to be complete by the time we went to CS but that we could still have "TBD" items in a CSD (eg "TBD" in conformance section).  Please clarify.

     

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    Duncan Sparrell

    sFractal Consulting

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